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Transcript
James Manktelow: Welcome to this October edition of Expert Interviews, here at Mind Tools. Stress management is a key theme within Mind Tools, and part of this involves managing performance stress. We all know the feeling of sickness in the pit of our stomach before an important presentation. We may have found in the past that our nerves have got in the way of giving a good performance.
Earlier today, we spoke to Dr Don Greene, who specializes in helping people deal with issues of performance anxiety. He is author of "Audition Success," "Fight Your Fear and Win" and "Performance Success." He has served with the U.S. Army Special Forces as a Green Beret and has helped Olympic sports teams manage the stress of competition. However, he has also worked with musicians, performers and business people, helping them perform at their best under pressure. Dr Greene joined us on the line from Manhattan. Now the sound quality of this interview isn't great: there was a lot of hiss on the line. However, please persist; there are some great tips within the interview.
I started by asking him how he describes what he does.
Dr Don Greene: I hopefully help people learn how to do their best under performance pressure, whether that's a musician during audition or a business executive giving an important presentation. Stress tends to affect how people perform and, unless they've been trained how to perform under pressure, some of them, and sometimes a lot of them, struggle with it and have problems with it, mainly because they haven't been trained how to properly deal with it.
James Manktelow: And I know you've done this training with some quite impressive organizations. Could you give us some examples of what you've done for them and what the problems you were trying to solve were?
Dr Don Greene: Well, when I worked for Merrill Lynch on Wall Street, one of the problems was indeed making big presentations, either to a Board or a Banker. And, again, these people are very intelligent and very talented, but if they haven't practiced doing what they're going to do, namely giving a presentation while the adrenalin's pumping, while they're feeling high energy; if they just go through it in their head in a relaxed atmosphere, and assume that they're going to perform well without practicing it under simulated pressure or a rehearsal where they do feel some of the nerves that are going to be there, they haven't properly prepared. And then, if they go in without that preparation, generally when the adrenalin hits and the energy spikes, then they – it's not the way they thought it was going to be; it's not the way they practiced it, and now they're in a process in front of rather important people, of doing something they haven't rehearsed, and it tends not to go well. So I worked with a lot of those executives on making these key presentations.
James Manktelow: Within that business context, are there any issues which business people, in particular, tend to experience?
Dr Don Greene: Well, if you take traders on Wall Street, what they do is not physical like an athlete would move or playing like a musician would play and a lot of it is decision-making that happens inside their own heads. And, what I found is, is some of them have been taught in proper ways to come to important conclusions and decisions but, again, a lot of them have not been trained, and so tend to make decisions based on their own ways of doing it, ways that have been successful but also a failure and, again, there's more of a structure or more of a procedure that helps people reach proper conclusions, and a procedure does that. It's very easy, especially on Wall Street, to make decisions based upon numbers and words, namely left brain information, and the left brain is very good at analysis and very good at processing words and numbers, but it's two-dimensional; it's plus or minus, black or white; whereas reality is three-dimensional at least in terms of right brain. The right brain sees things, feels things, and hears things. It doesn't crunch numbers and it doesn't do word puzzles, but it has a feeling for whether those preliminary conclusions based on left brain facts, numbers and words, really feel correct, namely their gut, their instinct, which can't necessarily be put into words. But there's a sequence in decision making that, if you start with the left brain and crunch the numbers, come up with the pros and cons, the argument, the plus and minus, but not stop there based upon that left brain conclusion; then to check in with their gut, to check in to see how it feels because, no matter what the numbers are, the pluses and minuses, if it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't right. And they need to go through a sequential process in their own minds and make sure that, not only do the numbers make sense, the argument's correct, but that they feel right about it with their gut and, if they go through that sequence, they come to a lot better decisions.
James Manktelow: But what can go wrong with right brain decision making and how should people do it in the best way possible?
Dr Don Greene: Well, the thing that can go wrong with right brain decision making is that the right brain can be overwhelmed by the emotional mind, the emotional state, and if fear kicks into the process, it can take them out of touch with their true feelings as they spin off into fear, because fear will convince them not to take action, not to move, not to move courageously, and oftentimes the right decisions are coming out of courageous thoughts, courageous actions, not holding back and not playing defensively, and if the fear overrides your true feelings, then it can go wrong.
James Manktelow: In "Fight Your Fear and Win", you outline seven factors that you can say can help deal with this fear, and I'll say, for our listeners, these are determination, energy, perspective, courage, focus, poise and resilience. Could you give us a flavor of how these help fight this fear, perhaps starting with determination?
Dr Don Greene: Determination has to do with motivation and inspiration, and if one is not motivated on the beginning of a journey as you start out, before you reach the end you feel absolutely convinced you should stop and turn back. So starting out with a clear goal in mind and being motivated and inspired towards that goal is very important because, either early on or in the middle or at the end, fear is going to kick in and try to convince you to not move towards that goal.
James Manktelow: The next of the factors was energy, and that's quite a complicated one I suspect. Why is energy important?
Dr Don Greene: Well, energy is important because energy is what we run off of; it's the fuel behind it. Whether it's high energy that's good, namely that you're excited and positive about this, or low energy, just because you've lost your thrill and you've lost the excitement and you've lost your drive affects how you perform. Most performers, most people perform at their best at higher energy levels than extremely relaxed. It depends upon the activity of course, but controlling energy and being at the right energy when you need to perform best, whether it's an athletic event or a presentation, is very important.
James Manktelow: The third of the factors was perspective. What does that involve?
Dr Don Greene: Well, perspective is your mindset; it's your way of looking at things, because the way you see things tend to be the way that they are, so your perspective of, your viewpoint, how you see things, your opinions, what you take for fact, what you take as assumptions, all of these affect your perspective and what you see is very much affecting how you do.
James Manktelow: Next, courage, which is again a curious word, and there's a lot of meaning packed into it. What makes up courage in this context?
Dr Don Greene: In this context, courage or bravery is not the absence of fear; it's taking action in the face of fear, of doing the thing that you fear because, unless you take courageous action, nothing gets done.
James Manktelow: It's still quite a large concept to get your mind around. Do you break it down into different elements that make up courage?
Dr Don Greene: I don't break it down into different elements. I break fear into different types of fear that affect performers or executives, fear of failure certainly, fear of taking risks, fear of success in some cases, but the solutions tend to remain the same as acknowledge and identify your fears, and then take courageous brave action past them.
James Manktelow: Focus was the fifth of the points. How do you help people focus when they're under pressure? It's so easy just to lose your thread and freeze during performance.
Dr Don Greene: Well, it's important for individuals to understand how stress affects their attention and concentration, namely people become more distractible under stress. And there are generally three types of distraction that affects people when they're under stress: one is external distractions, namely things around them moving or people moving or sound, that's one. Another one is their own left brain noise that people start worrying and start talking to themselves and start expressing fears and doubts under pressure. The left brain goes faster and faster under pressure, more and more thoughts, and then not just one voice, but a whole committee meeting happening inside their heads, with a lot of verbal noise, and that's an internal distraction. And the third type of distraction is an offshoot of that, and it's people, when they're under pressure, trying to perform, being more concerned with what other people are thinking of them, than they are about focusing on what they're doing. So those are the three main types of distractions, and it's important for people to individually understand which of them affect them the most under stress. The other part, after they get past their distractions, is to understand how they can focus better, and focus is another term that's fancied around, but at this point I'm breaking it up into several different factors. One is presence of focus, namely the ability to remain in the here and now and to focus in the present, in the here and now. The second is intensity of how intensely can they focus? Is their mind wandering or is it a narrow laser beam of focus on what they're concentrating on? And the third is duration of focus, which is how long can they keep their focus? Do they have a short attention span or can they extend their focus over long periods of time? That often comes out of energy because it takes energy to focus and it takes energy to pay attention, and you pay it with economy of energy. So, when people are fresh and rested and full of energy, it's easier to remain focused, to intensify their focus and when people haven't had enough rest or sleep or fresh air, it's going to affect their focus. It's much tougher to focus when people are tired, not rested or stressed. So, going into performance situations, having built up good energy with rest, exercise, good nutrition, so you go in there ready to be sharp.
James Manktelow: The sixth factor, poise, is something that many people believe you're born with, rather than being something that you can acquire. I understand that you don't believe that this is the case.
Dr Don Greene: No, it's not the case. People are not born knowing how to be poised. They may learn it early from their parents modeling it or acquire it on their own, but they're not born with it. Most people don't know how to do it and don't know how to acquire it, and really don't know what's involved in performing their best under pressure, or understanding how pressure dramatically alters how they tend to do in performance situations. Poise has to do with learning that you can not only survive under pressure, but that you can actually learn how to do your best under pressure. Rather than just squeaking through, you can make the energy of adrenaline work for you so, not only is it an okay presentation, it's a great presentation. When people learn how to use this adrenalin and energy rather than fearing it or trying to suppress it, it makes them much more powerful, much more focused, much more present, and the presentations, rather than just being humdrum, going through the rendition at low energy, they tend to be exciting and pull people in. And that's why this works so well for performers, because you go to a performance not wanting to be bored, but wanting to be moved, and it's the same thing with in a business presentation, to have that power and conviction behind what you're saying, and that's where the energy comes in.
James Manktelow: Your seventh point is resilience. I'm fascinated to learn about how people recover when something goes badly wrong during a presentation.
Dr Don Greene: Well, that's a great question because there are no perfect presentations, there are no perfect performances. Not that I'm pessimistic, but I'm expecting people to go in and do well, but I'm not expecting it to be perfect. So if they do make an occasional slip, hopefully they have a recovery strategy that can quickly get them back on track, and I've got a five step recovery strategy that I ask people to learn and then practice so, if they make the occasional mistake, they quickly recover and continue with the rest, without worrying about that occasional blip. The opposite of that is worrying about it, fearing it, in which case it will happen, and then not having a strategy, and then telling yourself you knew you were going to make a mistake; there you are making the mistake, thinking about what you're going to do now, and then possibly trying to do the rest of it incredibly perfectly, and maybe setting up another failure. So I've got a five step recovery process that I ask performers to go through and practice so that, when the occasional mistake happens, they just quickly recover, get back on track, and that oftentimes is impressive when people observe that.
James Manktelow: So what are those points? What are those steps?
Dr Don Greene: The five steps are: number one that they accept the mistake immediately, that they not either go into denial like saying, "I can't believe I made that mistake; I never make the mistake," or into self-criticism and start abusing themselves, punishing themselves when they're still trying to present or perform, so to immediately accept that they made the mistake. They don't – need not be happy about it, but they accept that they made it. Number two is to bring their mind back into the present and focus on what they're doing. The third step is to make sure that they haven't tightened up, that their muscles haven't tightened up because they cringed when they made the mistake. That will just further make it difficult, so it's important that they have the presence of mind just to relax their jaw or to smile or to drop their shoulders 'cause, chances are, if they made a mistake, they're aware of it and they know other people are aware of it, and the normal tendency is to tighten up or brace, which then makes them look stiff, and now they look bad besides sounding bad. The fourth step has to do with themselves having an emergency word or a cue to get their mind back into it and just get back onto what they're doing, like 'focus' or 'stay with it' or just take a pause and take a breath and pay attention to what they're doing. And the fifth and last step is that they simply try to perform at a reasonable level and not try to do something spectacular to make up for the mistake; simply get the train back on the track before they try to bring out the fireworks; just do it good before they try to do it great. I ask people to do rehearsals to the point of making mistakes and, when they do make a mistake in a rehearsal, simply practice this recovery strategy so that, if and when it does happen in a performance or a presentation, they're ready and they just go through the strategy and they just get right back on track.
James Manktelow: So let's look at some of the common situations which members of the Mind Tools Club will be experiencing in their daily life. I think one of the areas, which is particularly important, is self-confidence, if you're wanting to build a successful career. How should people build self-confidence in their working lives?
Dr Don Greene: That's a great question. First of all it's important to recognize that confidence is going up or down; it rarely remains static or the same, but that people have the control to build their confidence. That's a good idea because, going to most performance situations, you've got to have more confidence than less. And there's three main components of confidence and you're in control of all of them. The first is called right action; to ask oneself if they're doing the right things. Are they properly prepared? Are they doing the things that they know they should do in order to be properly prepared going into situations? If you haven't had time to prepare, if you're rushed, if you knew you could have done a better job, it's going to affect your mindset; your mindset is going to affect your confidence, and your confidence is going to affect how you go in and how confident you're feeling going in, and that's going to affect how you do. The second has to do with self-talk, of what you're saying to yourself, because we're constantly talking to ourselves and constantly listening and taking in. Everything we say has power in terms of our confidence. If we continually tell ourselves that we're not good enough, that we're not doing well, that we should be doing something else, that we're not properly trained, it's going to affect our confidence. If we are more positive and supportive, like most people are to their friends, it supports us and it gets us thinking on the right track and it builds our confidence. If we remind ourselves constantly of our failures, it will diminish our confidence. If we tell ourselves in positive terms that we're doing good, and that we're getting better, it will increase our confidence. And the third is more right brain, namely how we see ourselves doing. Do we see ourselves doing well, or do we see ourselves failing? And we look back in our memory: are we picturing a series of failures, missteps, or are we seeing some of our successes and victories? Whichever ones we continue to play can affect our confidence. If we project it forward to how we see ourselves doing in the next performance situation, are we imagining the worst, which is going to decrease confidence, or are we seeing it going well, which is going to increase our confidence. So those are the three things that affect our confidence, what we're doing in reality, but also what we're telling ourselves in our left brain and also what we're imagining in our right brain; those are the three main components of our confidence going up or down. The interesting thing is that two thirds of them happen in our heads continually without our taking any physical action whatsoever.
James Manktelow: So if someone feels deeply unconfident within themselves, what is the one thing you'd advise them to do to build a strong sense of self-confidence?
Dr Don Greene: I would suggest that they take a small step in each one of these areas, in the physical action part, what could they do on a small scale to improve? Would that be taking lessons, going back to school, reading the newspaper, seeking out a mentor? Any step that they could take to physically make some motion that would improve their position would be helpful. The second thing with the self-talk is to examine what they're saying to themselves. I have people write out verbatim what they tend to say to themselves under extreme stress. Most people respond by saying that they know what they're thinking under extreme stress, and I say that's not good enough because that's swirling around with a million other thoughts in your head, and it's important to actually write them down, to get them out of your head onto paper where you can see them by themselves, not with all the other thoughts swirling around. And if people have the courage to do this, because this is not an easy exercise, but they can truly reflect on exactly what they were thinking about in the last five minutes before their last important presentation and capture those thoughts, or maybe a meeting with their boss; what were they thinking and saying, exactly in the language that they were saying, uncensored. Write it down and then see if this is something they would say to a co-worker or a friend preparing for that same important type of presentation, and if that's not helping them or those are things that they would never say to a good friend, ask them to start changing it. It may seem a little bit corny at first, especially if people are in the habit of just being abusive and self-critical, but if they see it on paper and see the damage that they're doing, they can start changing it around. And the third thing is to similarly look at what they're imagining five minutes before the meeting or before the meeting with their boss to ask for a raise. Were they imagining it going well or imagining it going poorly? You should really look at that and then, again, if they're watching the wrong movies, to turn around and turn the horror film into a highlight film, and start imagining it going well. Not huge successes, just again in small steps, but just imagining a less stressful event going well, and build up towards the most stressful. Those are the three things they can practically do on a daily basis; it takes less than ten minutes and they can do anywhere and it will improve their confidence.
James Manktelow: So, let's say that they've built a good level of self-confidence, but what can someone do in a really high pressure situation such as just before giving a presentation? How can they calm the nerves they feel just before they stand up? Is there one technique you would recommend for that?
Dr Don Greene: First of all I would say that I don't believe in being especially calm or super-relaxed in pressure situations. It just isn't reality. What I tell people continually, if you're going into a stressful situation, you're going to feel extra energy. You can interpret that as being nervous; I would call it excited, because it's the way you interpret it that affects how you respond. If you say, "I'm really nervous and I'm going to freak out," you probably will. If you say, "I'm pumped up and I'm really excited about giving a powerful presentation," then it works in your favor. Then you can start to learn how to use the energy. I teach a strategy called centering. It's a strategy that comes from the martial art of Aikido and Western sport psychology. It's a seven step, very intricate and sophisticated strategy to help people, right before they perform, channel the energy, get in touch with their focus, and shift from left brain chatter to right brain performance. Then they can use the energy, but it's not about being relaxed, and the last thing I would ever say to anybody right before going on, is to relax, because they're not going to be relaxed. If they get the idea that they're supposed to be relaxed, then they've got another conflict on their hands. Not only are they not feeling prepared or not ready, but they feel like they're nervous and say that they're nervous, and it compounds the problem, so I don't tell people to relax, I tell people to center. I tell people to use that energy and to learn how to use that energy, in – first in relaxed circumstances where they actually on purpose get their energy up and then start their presentation at that high energy level because they're going to be that high energy level. And, rather than go through the denial that it's not going to be there, I say to people, "I expect you to be what you call nervous. I want you to learn how to use that energy for power." So this is not about being calm, it's about learning how to use that energy.
James Manktelow: Let's say that someone has succeeded in centering themselves and their presentation's gone really well, and it's the latest in a whole series of achievements, so naturally you feel it's time you had a raise. What mindset should people adopt going into that situation of asking their boss for a raise?
Dr Don Greene: First of all that they truly believe that they deserve a raise because, if they don't believe it, then their boss isn't going to believe it, so they've got to be reasonable about that, and we go back to the almost the three steps of confidence: do they feel like they deserve it and have they taken the right actions? But if you're saying they have taken the right actions, the next thing to do then is look at the self-talk and examine what they're thinking about what they're going to say to their boss, playing it out in their heads, and also convincing themselves that their presentation to their boss is going to be very effective. The way to do that is to rehearse it, get with a co-worker or a friend and go through exactly what they're going to say. Then it's important that they imagine it going well, see it going well, work out possibilities, contingencies, what if the boss asks this, then they'll say this, and what if the boss brings up this point, well then they'll bring up this other fact. And then go through different scenarios in their own mind so they can mentally rehearse all of the – most of the possibilities that can come out of that meeting or happen in that meeting, and they see themselves doing well with it. And the final step is that they then rehearse at the energy levels that they feel like they're going to be going in. This is where I literally have people run up and down two flights of stairs, then go into their friend's office and then, when their heart is pounding and they're a little bit out of breath, they deliver their opening few lines. And they get used to the fact that they're going to be delivering those lines at a higher energy level, and in a safe environment and they rehearse how that's going to go, how it's going to feel, and see themselves doing better and better at it, rather than try to convince themselves that they need to relax before they go into the boss's office, because if this is truly important to them they're not going to be relaxed.
James Manktelow: Here's a different scenario, looking at your seventh factor which is resilience. Let's say that you've just been called into your boss's office and, all of a sudden, she tears into you for something that really isn't your fault. How can you recover the situation and manage it in a professional manner?
Dr Don Greene: Let's talk about our two minds. We have a rational mind and an emotional mind. In times of high stress, and certainly when we're falsely accused, a lot of people go into their emotional brain, so their limbic system and they go into extreme fear or panic. They tend to do things that might not be rational later on, in other words say something that at the moment, out of emotionality, seems correct, but a few minutes later they're shaking their head. I'm not sure what you call it in Great Britain, but in the United States it's called road rage. It happens to otherwise normal people, you know, people with families. They lose it. The emotional drive at the time forces them to do something out of rage or out of something else that is totally wrong or inappropriate. What I train people to do is to understand this process and see that it's very quick, but it's very temporary, and rather than reacting in a moment, out of this emotional state, that they simply take a breath, that they pause, drop their shoulders, think for a moment, think of the right thing to say, and then say it. Even though the emotions are raging behind it, this is not the time to unleash that power in this unexpected situation. The same thing in most emergency situations people don't realize that they have a moment or two to take a pause, to take a breath, to collect themselves, and then have the presence of mind to move forward rationally. It doesn't take long. It takes the presence of mind doing that.
James Manktelow: Don thank you for speaking to us. I'm sure we've all learnt a lot from what you've had to say. And, in concluding this interview, I'd like to give my personal recommendation to "Fight Your Fear and Win" by Dr Don Greene. Not only does it help you narrow down precisely the issues you face, it has many powerful tools that will help you beat stress and enjoy performing at your best. That's Fight Your Fear and Win by Dr Don Greene, published by Broadway and Vermillion. He also has a website at www.dongreene.com, which has a useful self-assessment that you can use to quickly narrow in on the skills you need to learn.