Excuse Me

Rosanne Thomas: Of course, in some ways it has remained the same, but in other ways there are absolutely brand-new situations we find ourselves in, for which there was no etiquette in the last century. For instance, now we need to concern ourselves with whether or not it's alright to text a boss at home over the weekend, or how we refer to a gay colleague's spouse, or how we monitor and mitigate an online presence that might not be pristine.

So those are things that only happened in this century, but last century there were etiquette rules obviously around decorum and formality and meetings and greetings, and last century we tended to defer to social etiquette as a blueprint for business etiquette, and that is no longer the case. Today we try not to defer to issues of age or gender and strictly upon hierarchy.

Rachel Salaman: Could you make the link for us between business etiquette and respect?

Rosanne Thomas: Certainly. Respect lies at the heart. We need respect first for any of our behaviors to ring true, so I look at respect as the foundation and I look at business etiquette as the mechanics, and this is how we actually show respect. So we need to have the respect and then we actually need to evidence it. It's not enough for us to say to ourselves, "I'm a respectful person, I've got a good attitude, I'm a team player" – we've got to evidence all of those things.

Rachel Salaman: So what exactly do you mean by "evidence"?

Rosanne Thomas: That means you might say to yourself, "I have a fantastic attitude, I've got a great attitude," and you might very well, in fact I'm sure that you do. But how are you displaying that attitude on a daily basis? Little things mean a lot. For instance, are you looking up and smiling as someone approaches you coming down the hallway? Do you refer to them by name, if you happen to know their name?

Little things like holding a door open when you walk into a building to make sure that the person behind you can come in with their armful of books, cleaning up after meetings – tiny little things like this matter, and of course they reflect upon your personal brand.

Rachel Salaman: For a lot of people, respect – the kind of respect you're talking about – is linked to empathy. Could you talk a little bit about that and your views on empathy in the workplace?

Rosanne Thomas: Absolutely, it's interesting to me that now companies are actually hiring for empathy, they're hiring for social skills. In the past, in the very recent past, many companies were hiring for technical skills because they were relatively new, and they needed them.

However, now technical skills are becoming almost ubiquitous, and that's a good thing, almost everyone has them and as time goes on everyone will have them. So what we'll revert to are our social skills, our empathy ability, because that's where the relationship development is and that's where we need to be sure that we are interacting with others in the very best productive way.

Rachel Salaman: Now, you've made the case for respect and empathy in the workplace, and yet in your book you say that a lack of respect in the workplace is "pervasive, serious and costly." So, how does that lack of respect manifest itself?

Rosanne Thomas: The lack of respect manifests itself in various ways depending upon whether you're the employer or the employee. With employees it's really pervasive in that it affects morale; it affects productivity; it might affect mental health, which could affect physical health; it certainly has an impact upon attendance and absenteeism; and it's contagious, in that one person's disrespect, one person's incivility toward another in the workplace is contagious to other people, and they tend to think, "I guess this is OK," or "I guess this is our corporate culture and I guess this is the way we behave." So that's not good for employees at all.

With regard to the employers, it can be extremely costly. It can cost them the best and brightest new hires, it can cost them in terms of medical bills, certainly in terms of productivity, their own company brand. It could even cost them in terms of legal expenses. So it's really a win-win if we have a respectful, inclusive, civil workplace, and it's a lose-lose if we don't.

Rachel Salaman: So, from what you've seen, what is at the root of disrespect in the workplace?

Rosanne Thomas: My thinking is, and I would like to believe that people are not intentionally disrespectful. My hope is that they just don't know the new rules – and there are new rules and we wouldn't necessarily intuitively know them. But as you mentioned earlier there are so many cultures in the workplace right now, so many different populations, and of course international folks trying to understand each other's cultures, that there's innumerable opportunities to make a mistake.

Rachel Salaman: This might be a good time for you to explain the Platinum Rule, which goes one step further than the Golden Rule that many of us are familiar with. Could you tell us what it is and how it's relevant in today's workplace?

Rosanne Thomas: Absolutely. So, we're all familiar with the Golden Rule, which is to treat others as we would wish to be treated. It's an admirable rule, it's a great rule, and we're not even really there in terms of treating one another necessarily respectfully. We're not even employing the Golden Rule, but now we are called upon to employ the Platinum Rule, and what that indicates is that we must treat others the way they wish to be treated, which means we need to find out how they wish to be treated – what respect looks like to them.

Rachel Salaman: How do we do that? How do we find out what respect looks like to them?

Rosanne Thomas: Well, we can do our own research, we can read books, we can ask people who might know about this particular population more than we do, and we can certainly just ask the individual. They will appreciate the fact that you respect them well enough to ask them how they would like to be referred to, how they would like their spouse to be referred to. Right now I believe there are maybe 56 different ways on Facebook for people to self-identify, so we can't necessarily make any assumptions about anyone at all, and when in doubt we need to ask, in a non-judgmental way of course.

Rachel Salaman: Now a lot of people say that the differences between generations are central to this discussion. How would you characterize the different generations and the respect issues that arise between them?

Rosanne Thomas: Sure, so we right now have four, going on five generations in the workplace, and this is unprecedented. Last century we had two, perhaps two and a half generations at one time, and right now we've got folks who might be 50 years apart in age trying to understand one another, to respect one another, to work toward a common good, and their values, their goals, their experiences, their business practices could be completely diametrically opposed. Yet we've got to figure out a way to bridge this divide so that we can work together respectfully.

Rachel Salaman: Can you talk through what the different generations are, or perhaps a couple of them?

Rosanne Thomas: Of course. So the older generation, we call them the Traditionalists, born before 1946, they tend to only know a workplace that was strictly hierarchical, and back then it was mostly dominated by white, non-Hispanic men. The Baby Boomers followed them after 1946 to around 1964. The Baby Boomers are still quite respectful of rank and hierarchy but they were influenced by a lot of political situations, so they are somewhat more liberal in their thinking.

And then we progressed to the Generation X folks and of course to the Millennials, who represent the largest population in the workplace right now. And I'm generalizing here of course, but they are all about no layers in corporations, they tend to think that there is no right or wrong here, but they might be working for a corporation or working with folks who don't look at the workplace the same way.

Rachel Salaman: If you looked at a typical workplace where they might have four or five of these generations working with each other in teams, certainly alongside each other, what kind of respect issues arise?

Rosanne Thomas: So communication is where we start and the younger folks, the Millennials, are very comfortable, in fact their communication mode of choice is of course text-based. This is not the case with the older folks, who might really be far more comfortable with either telephone conversations or face-to-face conversations.

So in order to respect someone else's comfort level and skill level we need to figure out how it is that we communicate with them right off the bat. Of course, technology is a huge differentiator right now, and in the workplace we have what we call the Digital Natives, those who have never known a time without digital technology, trying to work with the Digital Immigrants, those who very well know a time without digital technology, and how they're trying to come together. It's a challenge, but it can be done.

Rachel Salaman: So do you have any tips for people who are recognizing what you're saying and would like to show more respect – they would like to apply the Platinum Rule, in fact, to their colleagues of a different generation?

Rosanne Thomas: Absolutely, what we need to do first and foremost is to try to discount any of the generalizations that we may have heard. Some of us may have heard that the older folks are resistant to change and just want things the way they always were.

Among the younger folks we tend to hear – right or wrong – that they are somewhat impatient and not respectful of hierarchy or rank, so we've got to put those generalizations with those expectations aside, work with the individual, him or herself, work with that person, ask him or her for advice, the younger folks can ask the older folks – who have, by the way, an incredible amount of institutional knowledge and experience – ask them for the benefit of their experience. The older folks can ask the younger folks for the benefit of their technical expertise. It's almost a reverse mentoring situation going on, or a co-mentoring situation going on that benefits everyone.

Rachel Salaman: Now the presence of different generations is just one way the workplaces are diverse nowadays. Diversity of gender, ethnic background, and other defining characteristics are all present, and that tends to be celebrated and encouraged nowadays. But it can bring its share of etiquette challenges, so why is that?

Rosanne Thomas: Again, we are applying our standards to other populations. For instance, I live here in Boston and I live on Beacon Hill, which of course is hilly and I witnessed just recently a gentleman in a wheelchair propelling himself up the hill, and this was not a motorized wheelchair.

Another gentleman came up from behind and started to push the wheelchair up the hill, saying, "Here, let me help you." I know that his intentions were good but what he did was take it upon himself to decide for the person in the wheelchair, and that is disrespectful.

The man in the wheelchair said, "Thank you very much but no thank you, I can do this myself." So that is where the Golden Rule and the Platinum Rule are not the same. We might prefer that someone help us if we happen to have been in a wheelchair, help us up the hill, but that is not necessarily the way in which the other person wants to be treated, so we always need to ask. The gentleman would have been within his rights to say, "May I be of assistance," and the gentleman in the wheelchair would say, "No thank you, I'm fine," and everything would have been good.

Rachel Salaman: In your book you have some interesting tips about how to show respect in diverse settings and you break them down into categories. Could you share your tips about cultural diversity first, perhaps starting by clarifying what kind of culture we're talking about?

Rosanne Thomas: We're talking about international cultures – where people were born and raised, and what their values are, their beliefs are, how they look at the business world in general, how they look at populations, what the pace of business is, the locus of decision making, how they entertain, dress, dine, how they communicate verbally and non-verbally all may be vastly different from the culture in which you were born, so we've got to figure that out so that we do not inadvertently offend someone by imposing our cultural expectations upon them.

Rachel Salaman: So is that about empathy first and foremost, is it about asking questions, so what would you suggest?

Rosanne Thomas: Empathy is a great place to start; just realizing that there are differences is a very good place to start. All of us tend to generalize, well this is the way business is done around the world, and so if we're in the relationship-building business (which we all are) and we want to show respect, we need to acknowledge that there are differences and then learn what those differences are, either through studying about them or asking the individuals about them and then adhering to respecting these differences, whatever they happen to be, without judgment. What we must do more than anything else is never compare cultures so that one is compared in an unfavorable way.

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Rachel Salaman: Now, what about being respectful to LGBT colleagues? What are some offensive behaviors that people might not be aware of that should be avoided?

Rosanne Thomas: Firstly, when our gay colleagues get married, generally speaking they will refer to their spouse as either their husband or their wife, though we still want to check that out with them but that is generally the way, one of those two.

So we want to avoid referring to their spouse as their partner or their friend or even their spouse, little things like that. And it's interesting, sometimes I hear people saying to me that they're going to a gay wedding this weekend. Well they're going to a wedding this weekend, we don't need to distinguish that, we don't get too personal and we observe boundaries but we do ask questions if we're unclear.

Rachel Salaman: You talked a little bit about disabled people earlier. What else can you tell us about showing respect to disabled people that we might not be aware of?

Rosanne Thomas: We tend to look at a person, let's say who happens to be using a wheelchair, occasionally maybe we'll talk louder than we normally will as though they can't hear us, or we will simplify our conversation as though they can't understand us, or we'll change what we say, maybe we don't joke around. I mean they certainly have an intact sense of humor, everything is the same, the only difference is they happen to be using a wheelchair.

So right off the bat we want to make sure our attitudes are correct, and also never presume that the person who has the disability is unhappy with their lives; hopefully they're very happy with their lives. So it's attitudinal at the beginning, and then past that we need to look at the actual disability, find out what the etiquette is for that specific disability.

Rachel Salaman: Where would we go to find that information, let's say if the disability was deafness or blindness?

Rosanne Thomas: There's a great deal of information online, in fact you can just type that in: "What is the etiquette for dealing with persons with disabilities." And by the way it's always persons with disabilities, not disabled people, so we start there.

There is a lot of information out there. For instance, if you're working with someone who has a hearing loss you want to make sure that when you speak with them you are looking at them directly, speaking slowly and expressively so they can read your lips. And for all persons with disabilities, if they happen to have a caregiver or an attendant, making sure that we are interacting with the person, not with the caregiver.

Rachel Salaman: So far we've been talking about how we can show respect to others. What's the best way to respond if we feel that someone is being disrespectful to us at work?

Rosanne Thomas: This happens, and we all have feelings, we're sensitive human beings and we might hear something that comes across to us as disrespectful. First, we have to challenge this, and is it in fact disrespectful or are we just having a bad day and we're taking it that way? If we are sure that disrespect was intended then we do need to challenge it, and many times people will say, "Well, if I employ business etiquette rules does this mean I have to accept rude behavior?" The answer is no, you certainly don't, but you need to respond to it in a respectful way.

So what that means is you would give someone the benefit of the doubt at first by saying, "I'm sorry, could you repeat that," and that gives them the signal that maybe what they just said didn't come across as the way in which they intended it to.

Rachel Salaman: It gives them a chance to rephrase.

Rosanne Thomas: Exactly right, and many times that's all that it takes, because we can all, I think, most of us can be curt or short from time to time, we're rushed, we're stressed, we've got a million things on our minds, and maybe what we've just said doesn't come across the exact way we intended it to. And so then we have an opportunity to rephrase and save the relationship, or get it back on the right track.

Past that, if that doesn't work we've got to be more direct and ask someone, "I'm sorry, what do you mean by that exactly?" So then they need to explain their statement, and if that doesn't resolve the issue then we have to say something along the lines of, "I find that disrespectful, I find that offensive, and I'd like to ask that you not do that in the future," whatever it happens to be.

And then finally, if none of those things resolve the matter then it can become a human resources issue, but I'm really hopeful that people just don't know what they're saying and that just a little reminder will get them back on the right track.

Rachel Salaman: A little earlier you mentioned personal brands, and this comes up in your book as well, as you make the point that we all have a personal brand, whether we recognize it as such or not. How does the idea of personal brands play into this discussion and what should we be aiming for in developing our own?

Rosanne Thomas: Certainly, so our behavior of course reflects upon us and contributes to our personal brand, so that is a fact of the matter. Obviously we want to be part of the respectful workplace because it's just a nicer workplace for everyone, and a more productive one as well, but our behavior, every single thing we do and say during the course of the day either contributes to, or detracts from, our personal brand.

So my thinking is we want to be quite deliberate in what we do and say and only do things that will favorably reflect upon our personal brand, and I'm in no way suggesting that we be inauthentic, because that doesn't work and that's not what we want at all, but that we put our very best foot forward every single day.

I guarantee you that people are observing, so you want to be the one who, regardless of the pressure of the situation, remains calm and cool, and deals with whatever the situation happens to be in a respectful way toward the other people in the room, even if they're not acting similarly. That puts you in a position of almost being a role model. Certainly people tend to think that person is in control and it's just a good brand reflection, I think.

Rachel Salaman: There's a great quote in your book that's worth repeating. It's attributed to the Indian spiritual leader Guru Sai Baba and it goes, "Before you speak, ask yourself is it kind, is it necessary, is it true, does it improve on the silence?" What does this tell us about communicating with respect?

Rosanne Thomas: To me this means that we think before we speak, really we just think about the words and think about their potential impact, think about the tone of voice that we use in speaking. This could be my observation only, but I tend to feel like… filters, I don't know what has happened to them, people don't tend to spend a great deal of time thinking about how their words are going to sound. I observe a fair amount of gratuitous incivility. We don't need to voice every feeling that we have, we can have the feelings without giving voice to them.

Rachel Salaman: Your book is packed with tips on the best way to use several modes of communication, and we spoke earlier about the different generations' preferences for phone over text and so forth. You also have a section called Acing Social Media, so what do we need to know in order to ace social media from a business etiquette standpoint?

Rosanne Thomas: Of course, well first and foremost we need to know that everything we put online is there permanently, it contributes to our digital dossier that we can never ever escape, so in face-to-face interactions conversations might be forgotten, if we're lucky mistakes we made might be forgotten, but what you put online lives forever. So you are extraordinarily respectful, and I would say no matter what you type, read it out loud to yourself to make sure it has the intended tone, because of course we don't have tone, nor do we have nonverbal cues to help us when we just have the stark typewritten words.

So we start by realizing that what we do is permanent, and past that we want to make sure we use the platforms appropriately for what they are intended to be used for. Whether it's Facebook, Twitter or LinkedIn, they are all meant for different business purposes and we need to find out what those are, being very careful never to communicate anger, that is when you want to sit back.

We've seen some very bright people get themselves into tremendous trouble on social media for lack of just not giving it another thought.

It never goes away. There is an adage that says the worst thing that you've said or done on social media or online will be the first thing that other people see forever. Now there is some talk about erasing your digital past, but we are nowhere near that and I think we have to presume that what we're putting up there is permanent.

Rachel Salaman: Let's talk about face-to-face socializing in a business context, starting with the responsibilities of hosts and guests. Now, in some situations it's not always very clear who is the host and who is the guest – for example, if two people agree to meet informally to discuss a possible work collaboration. Do you have a rule of thumb about who would pay in that scenario?

Rosanne Thomas: Generally speaking the person who requests the meeting or extends the invitation is the one who pays. And the culture of your organization matters as well, so if it's just something that people do often, do you get together for lunch, if I happen to suggest it or you happen to suggest it and it's just understood that we each pay for ourselves, well then that's what we do.

But in more formal business dining situations where someone invites a client out, or a prospect out, or a boss takes an applicant out, it is presumed that that host will pay the bill and we want to let them, as guests, take that responsibility, we try not to usurp the host's responsibility.

Rachel Salaman: You've mentioned a couple of dos and don'ts there, so are there any other dos and don'ts for dining with business associates that you can share with us?

Rosanne Thomas: I actually do recommend doing things after hours with business associates, and it's good for team building, it's good for sharing ideas, it's good for relationship building. However, I would caution people to be extraordinarily careful of their behavior whenever there is alcohol involved, whether there are higher ups, your brand is on display and what you do or say tonight I guarantee you will not be forgotten tomorrow.

There is nothing wrong with not drinking and if someone says, "Aren't you drinking?" you don't necessarily have to offer any explanation other than, "No thank you, not tonight." But if you think there's going to be any awkward conversation just holding a glass of sparkling water with a lime in it will make people think you are drinking something and that just gets rid of that entirely.

It's just too risky, I think it's enormously risky. I have seen people's careers go down in flames because of one night of over-imbibing.

It's not that you can't drink at all, but you've got to make sure that you're the person who can stop after one; two is very tricky, and three is a disaster for most people. So you can certainly sip a drink slowly so that yes, you are part of the camaraderie and what's happening in the team, but you are responsible for every single thing you do and say. You are responsible and you won't get a lot of sympathy the next day if you've done something under the influence.

Rachel Salaman: Some companies regularly arrange social events for workers. How detrimental do you think it is for a person's career if he or she never takes part in those?

Rosanne Thomas: I think that companies do that for specific reasons. They are hoping to build camaraderie and build teams, and give people an opportunity just to relax, but I would say again this is very treacherous terrain. It might seem like a party and sound like a party and all of that, but in this unscripted situation you just don't know who is listening and you must be really careful.

So yes, I would recommend that you do go to as many of these events as possible because clearly your employer wants it, and because if it's important to them it may be as important to you. But having said that, be on your guard.

Rachel Salaman: You end your book with a look ahead to the workplace of the future. What do you predict it will look like and how will that affect how we treat each other at work?

Rosanne Thomas: We do think that people are starting to really value the empathy and the social skills again. I hope there will be less of an emphasis upon technology. Of course, it's a wonderful tool that we all need, but my hope is that we get back to the people in the world and that we use technology as a tool and something over which we have complete control.

I would like us to get back to the point where people right in front of us take precedence over that incoming call or text. I would like to see us engage in more of a digital detox, if you will, and get back to the activities that nurture us, that feed our souls, that give us energy and learning of perspective, and that basically means getting off of your electronic device. So that is my hope.

Rachel Salaman: It might be your hope but do you think that is the way that we're going?

Rosanne Thomas: Well I see signs of it. You know, there are companies out there, they're new companies that literally are catering to digital detox weekends where you can go and spend a lot of money to hand your electronic device over to the person at the reception desk, and they have arranged for you a lovely weekend of activities and meals and that kind of thing, relaxation and perhaps massages or whatever it happens to be.

I don't think you need to spend the money, I think you can do that on your own. So yes, I think people are beginning to miss one another, they're beginning to miss interactions, they're getting lonely behind their electronic devices, they really are.

Rachel Salaman: Roseanne Thomas, thanks very much for joining us today.

Rosanne Thomas: Thank you Rachel.

The name of Roseanne's book again is Excuse Me: The Survival Guide to Modern Business Etiquette, and you can find out more about Roseanne and her work at protocoladvisors.com. I'll be back in a few weeks with another Expert Interview, so until then, goodbye.